thinkthinkfeel

[kimberkit]

So, a rambly, chatty post. I've been reading Sophie's World lately (it was popular years ago, and essentially it's a story of the history of some of the major philosophers). I'm just up to the section on Plato.

Now, when I first read Plato's Republic, at age 16, I thought that Plato must have been a completely totalitarian fascist. He wanted a world ruled by the intelligentsia -- because it was only the intelligent who could perceive ideal forms, and who could rule wisely. Er, to back up for a second, the idea is that everything has an ideal form -- that somewhere, in looking at a flower, there must be an ideal conception of a flower. In looking at hundreds of gingerbread cookies, there must be an ideal shape for a gingerbread cookie.

Coming back to Plato now, though, I'm not so sure he's completely off his rocker about ideal forms. Surely there must be an ideal, if different, shape for different humans; surely there exists a perfect shape for what things should be.

I guess the problem for me, back then and now, is that I wonder whether we can really find that ideal shape purely through intellect. How can it be that only philosophers think that there's an ideal? How can only philosophers have a monopoly on how the world should run? A carpenter, shaping things every day with his hands, surely knows that there is an ideal shape for whatever it is he's making. And the same with other trades. I think we find our ideals by searching with our hearts, and with practice and interaction with the world.

I'm sure I'm going to get corrected by someone-or-other on my facts. Fire away, people :)

Comments

[jul3z.livejournal.com]

hehe you're just so eager to get to Darwin and we've only just gotten out of Greece!

so your conceptual ideal self was different than the material ideal self? so then does that mean that material reigns over concepts since we can't will ourselves to be ideal, we can only hope that we have the genetic stuffs to get us there?

[aussie-nyc.livejournal.com]

You could make that case. Or, perhaps more optimistically, you could see a four dimensional ideal: the lifetime of me, not just a frozen moment.

[jul3z.livejournal.com]

ah, but then the self is no longer a solitary unit because the lifetime view would have to take into account experiences and other external influences. so does the ideal take these things into account? because with a lifetime view of an ideal self, that starts to look like destiny.

[aussie-nyc.livejournal.com]

I speak merely in general, physical terms. A growing of height, then a gradual shrinking. A growth of hair, greying, disappearing. Eyesight becoming keener, then less so. Skin clearing to apparent flawlessness until it begins to discolour. One's experiences may alter this flow, certainly, but that would be a deviation (small or great) from the apparent ideal, which would involve a certain balance in nutrition and exercise and sleep and daylight and whatnot that helps the human form thrive.